How can church leaders navigate a rapidly changing cultural landscape while sustaining meaningful, faithful, and adaptive ministry? In this interview, Jonathan Page is joined by Karen Stewart as they discuss her new role at the Lewis Center for Church Leadership, her decades of experience in local church ministry and organizational leadership, and her vision for reimagining innovation, intergenerational engagement, and leadership formation for today and tomorrow’s church leaders.
Jonathan Page: Karen, I’m excited to be here with you starting this new journey at the Lewis Center together. You bring with you a ton of background and experience, and I wonder if you would just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. How did you get here?
Karen Stewart: Well, I come with about over 30 years of ministry experience in the local church, but I’ve worked my way up the ranks. I was home-grown, the church that I was a member of made an investment in my education with no strings. I didn’t have to stay at the church; but because they invested, and I love the church, I’ve been there and spent over 30 years in ministry there.
My last position was the Executive Director of Ministries, which is very similar to the senior pastor. I gave oversight to everything the church did ministry wise. I have been in the evangelism department. I cut my teeth in ministry in the children and youth department. I think most of us, that’s kind of where we get started. I was the first executive director to the nonprofit affiliated with the church, and the first woman to serve as the executive director of ministry there.
I also started my own consultation firm called Slack Solutions: Stewart Leadership and Consultation, where our motto is, “We pick up the slack,” and we help churches to think about their mission and vision and values. Ministry structure, staffing structure, even if they’re going to start a nonprofit in their organization to work alongside the church ministry.
I’ve been at Wesley, D.C. working at the HUB for (Re)Imagining Ministry for two years now and am excited to start this new chapter at the Lewis Center. I enjoy ministry a great deal and love God’s church.
Jonathan Page: I think our listeners are probably able to hear that there’s a reason why we want to work with you. You’ve got this background that has varied experience, and one of the things I love is this this ability to partner with the HUB for (Re)Imagining Ministry because so much of the work that you all are doing is related to innovation in the church. For me, it’s really challenging to decouple the concept of leadership from the concept of innovation; the two feel like natural partners. I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit about your specific role at the HUB and the ways that you’re integrating your ministry experience into that work that you’re doing alongside of churches in that innovative capacity.
Karen Stewart: I would love to talk about the HUB. The HUB for (Re)Imagining Ministry has been around since about 2016 and we work with pastors, churches, ministries, and young adults as we all think about how we can do ministry differently. We always know that the message remains the same. But as our times change, the way we do ministry has to adapt so that we can remain in front of it all. So that we can do God’s work amongst the people in the communities and the culture that we find ourselves in.
So, I started at the HUB under their Christian parenting grant, thinking about walking alongside churches with children’s faith formation at home. Many times, we give the reins of faith formation to the children and youth minister at church so that we can have a little bit of respite as we meet God for ourselves in adult worship, where we send our children over to children and youth worship.
This was rethinking what that looks like, to say and remind parents and guardians that children really form their faith best when they do it in community with you, not somewhere else. It has its place, but it sticks better when they do it in community with you because they watch you. They learn how to navigate faith by watching you and how you navigate faith.
And so that’s where I started. Now that has blossomed into not only overseeing that grant but also giving oversight to the grant for intergenerational worship and, move from just being a Program Director to now being, one of the two Directors of Engagement and programs for the HUB.
I also currently serve on the Evangelism and Discipleship Commission for the Baptist Word Alliance, and I serve as the faith seat for First Things First in Arizona, which investigates early childhood development. We say, “If you’re ready for kindergarten, you’re ready for college. If you’re not, you’re always playing catch up throughout the years. So, that kind of secular aspect of First Things First kind of set me up to do the work that I do with the HUB.
As these churches and Wesley and the HUB think about innovation, we think about our name. When I got started at Wesley, it was called the “Innovation HUB.” Innovation can be a buzzword. Now we’re talking more about how we can reimagine ministry in the culture and context, but we’re creating tools and thinking about getting those tools out to churches. We walk alongside leaders in churches, lay leaders, and pastoral leaders. That’s the work that the Lewis Center has been doing. So, there is a wonderful overlap. Being able to bridge the gap to see how these two centers of excellence can work together is very exciting to me.
Jonathan Page: What strikes me as really meaningful about what you’ve just shared is there is so much natural collaboration in this space already, and kind of where we see things like the work of children’s ministry, the work of intergenerational worship, and how we’re designing leadership in a way that promotes that kind of activity in the life of churches that promotes that kind of relational space.
Karen, as you think about sort of all of these different touch points—what you’re currently doing with the HUB, kind of where your experience is led, but the lens through which you see church leadership—what are some of the spaces that you would look at and say, gosh, this feels like something we need to pay attention to as leaders. Whether that be something that’s an opportunity for church leaders or a gap that needs to be addressed in the life of local church leadership.
Karen Stewart: Ironically, what I’m going to say is probably not anything new. We know the landscape is changing. The times that we are living in are tumultuous; but those are opportunities. It’s nothing the church hasn’t faced before. We know we used to be fascinated with millennials, well, now millennials are adults who have had children. Now we’re talking about Gen Alpha and these other generations that are coming, and how they are so connected with technology. AI is almost a mainstay, creeping into every aspect of the church. Not bad, not good, just our reality. So, it’s something that the church needs to be aware of and to think about: “What does AI mean for the way I do ministry, and how I reach this new generation?”
We talk about kids now and compare them to our own childhoods, saying “Well, we used to go outside and play, and so kids just need to go outside, and play and they need to get off of these devices.” Well, the truth of the matter is devices in a child’s hand is a mainstay. They don’t know a life without cell phones. So, it’s not as simple as saying they just need to put them away. It’s more about, how do we create environments that make the need for devices less necessary? But pastors all know, young people will sit in church and Google what you’re talking about to find out if you’re telling them the truth or not. So, it is shaping everything that we do. That’s new on the landscape.
We used to talk about the “nones,” those who are disaffiliated with the church. Well, what used to be new isn’t so new. Now, the nones are having children. So, there’s a generation out there that, like in Joshua, “knows not the Lord,” right? They have not been raised in an atmosphere where at least somebody had gone to church. Now they’ve got parents who’ve disaffiliated, and they’ve never been to church. So, these are new mission fields that the church has to wade into the waters of.
Jonathan Page: I think you’re right. And I think the way that we wade into those waters is important, too. It’s this interesting combination of having the humility that we don’t have all the answers and the confidence that perhaps the strongest answer to all of this is finding the love of Christ that’s dwelling deeply within each person. How you hold that intention is fascinating to me and leads to my next question for you.
You hold intention as a leader, as someone who also has a family and you’re able to have a life outside of that, right? What are some of the strategies that you’ve developed over your career for that? I hate the phrase work-life balance because I don’t think you can fully separate, especially something that’s your vocation, from your life. But I guess I’d like how you integrate that space for restful ideation, contemplation, all that sort of thing with the busyness of your leadership?
Karen Stewart: Whenever I hear the term “balance,” especially work and life, the imagery that comes up is a teeter-totter. I, like many, don’t have fun experiences with teeter-totter because depending on who’s on the other end, you are either stuck up in the sky or, if they jump off the teeter-totter, you slam back down to the ground and there never seems to be a real balance. And that’s kind of sometimes what we think in terms of work-life balance. The truth is, just like on a teeter-totter, you have to be intentional. You must be intentional about your work and how much work you are doing, and then the rest of your life, which can be a lot of things. If you are a parent raising children, you’ve got not only your schedule, but you’ve got children who are all over creation doing sports and after school activities and other sorts of things. And that doesn’t even talk about the things that feed your soul.
So, the word that always comes to mind is being intentional. Then there are times that you just have to recognize that, “I’ve been burning the candle at both ends.” For me, it was this past Monday. I had come to a weekend where I had planned too many things and kept all my commitments, but I was spent. I was mentally tired. I was physically tired. I was emotionally tired. And I knew on Monday night, I had some things, some work things that I needed to spend some extra time on. But I knew my daughter was just up the street making dinner for her family, so I called and said, “I’m coming over to eat so I won’t have to cook, and I won’t have to do dishes, and I can enjoy my grandchildren.” And that three hours of respite helped feed my soul. It gave me time with my family, and it reinvigorated me because I knew the stuff I missed on Monday was going to catch me on Tuesday, but I was more mentally prepared to do that. So, I think we should just say, sometimes “I’ve got to stop, take a break and breathe,” and then we can get back in with fresh eyes and fresh brains.
Jonathan Page: So, so much wisdom there. The work of leadership is not going to observe our need for pause and say, “oh, let’s just stop for a little while.” Right? It will always be there for you. It can be a buzz word, but that word, “intentionality” that you used; when you have intentional actions, they tend to lead to intentional results, right? If you say, “Hey, I want this particular outcome, but I’m just go on to let it all happen at random,” don’t be surprised when that outcome doesn’t come to fruition because you’ve just randomized your entire life.
I really want to go back to the piece you’ve mentioned though about the teeter-totter and intentionality. We talk about intentional outcomes, right? When you think about this season of leadership for you—working with the HUB, working with the Lewis Center—what is the fruit that you expect to come from your leadership in this season of your life? And then what are you doing to make that a reality?
Karen Stewart: So, I would love the fruit to be, and the and the fruit I want to work towards, because the seeds that I’m planting should bear this fruit, is that there is a current and new generation of leaders equipped to meet the needs of this current and these emerging generations. It’s just necessary. We know that church attendance is on decline. We know all of everything related to the church seems to be on the decline. However, there are some ministries out there that are doing some creative, reimagined ministry things that have their ministries growing. Being able to see and highlight those things, and then having the discussion around, “well, how does that now adapt to another context” is always something that helps people to say, “maybe that is something that I can do.”
We’ve also, after coming out of Covid, pastors and pastoral leaders have been resigning or leaving the ministry because of the workload. You know, we just talked about work-life balance; the workload just seems so overwhelming, and it seems unfulfilling. So, having a space where these leaders can come and be refreshed and know that they’re not in the in the boat alone. If that’s some fruit that can be borne out of the work that I do, that a pastor will say, “I was on the cusp of leaving the ministry. But God, through the work that you’ve done, you helped me to see its value in my work, and I was able to be reinvigorated and invested in it.” And that would be the fruit.
I think the way I work towards those things is really having an ear for the heart of where the church is, where the people are, and what it is that they need. It’s easy to say, “here’s what I think you need.” Sometimes we’re wrong. Hearing from the people, hearing where their heart is, and what their desires are, and incorporating that into the work that I do so that it meets that need, I think, is where I am. So, I hope that answers your question.
Jonathan Page: Yeah, I think it does. That image of deep listening and ensuring that you’re listening to understand—not to be able to speak. It’s that deep sense of appreciation. That idea of appreciation is really what I want to communicate to you, Karen. I’m excited that you’re coming onto our team. I’m excited for the wisdom that a lot of leaders and a lot of listeners are going to glean from you, and the contributions not only that you provide, but the contacts and the connections that you have provided.
You and I are different people, right? We’re living all sorts of things… But I just deeply appreciate the ways that your life and your ministry have led so many over the years and the impact that you’re going to have, in this, in this new space.
Karen, whenever we wrap a podcast, we always will give the guests the last word or last phrase or the last paragraph. I’m wondering if there’s any, any kind of closing word that you’d want to offer, our audience.
Karen Stewart: A closing word. Let’s see, that I would offer to the audience. I think my closing word is just one of encouragement. I know they’ve listened to us, and we’ve had a great time in conversation with one another, and maybe they’re wondering what’s next and what will everything look like?
But I always reflect on the scripture that says that there’s nothing new under the sun. So, even as we strategize for innovative and creative thinking, it’s not new to God. It may be new to us, but it’s not new to God. So that keeps me humble and connected, knowing that I just need to lean into God. That’s how I would encourage someone out there that there is nothing new under the sun. And it may be new to you, but it’s not new to God. And God’s got you in this season.
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Related Resources
- 3 Questions AI Is Forcing Your Congregation to Ask by Kenny Jahng
- 10 Keys to Intergenerational Leadership by Valerie Grissom
- Why Intergenerational Ministry? by Liz Perraud
- 50 Ways to Strengthen Ministry with Children, a free Lewis Center resource
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